So the separation became a divorce. On the last day of 1970, Paul McCartney
filed suit in London against John Lennon,Ringo Starr, and George Harrison
to dissolve their partnership of the Beatles & Co. McCartney charged
that their business manager, Allen Klein, was incompetent, and that their
far-flung business affairs of their corporation,Apple, were a vast bookkeeping
mess. Then the strained silence that had gripped the famous quartet for months
became a war of words. In the course of a rambling 30,000-word interview
in Rolling Stone, John accused Paul of trying to run the show. "We got fed
up with being sidemen for Paul," he said. George said he had once walked
out because Paul demonstrated a "superior attitude" toward him musically.
Ringo claimed that Paul - "completely out of control" - had berated him over
a conflict of album publication dates and said, "I'll finish you!" Until
now, Paul himself has remained silent. Recently he agreed tothe following
interview, in which he explains his motives and speaks in his defense.
McCartney was interviewed in Los Angeles, during a recording session for his new album Ram. The album, which was partly recorded in New York, contains 11 new songs by Paul, including several written in collaboration with his wife Linda. It is scheduled for release May 15.
The whole Beatle thing: it's like it was all years ago, like going back
a distance more than anything. And that's the whole point. The Beatles are
really finished, over with, the way we choose. I think while the Beatles
were on - I really cant use any other word - while they were just on, there
was no question of these normal hangups interfering with it because we just
had an understanding. It's like a married couple. When we started off, we
were all aiming for pretty much the same thing. I think the troubles really
began when we weren't aiming anymore for the same thing - which began, I
think, when we stopped touring in 1966.
During the making of the White Album, Ringo left the group saying he
wasnt "getting through" to the rest of us. But he came back in two days.
By the time we made Abbey Road, John and I were openly critical to each other's
music and I felt John wasnt interested in performing anything he hadnt written
himself. When we made the Let It Be album, George walked out over a row about
the performance of some songs -and said he was leaving the group. A few days
later, there was a meeting at Ringo's house, and he agreed to come back at
least until the recording was finished.
So I felt the split coming. And John kept saying we were musically standing
still. One night - this was the autumn of '69 - Linda and I were lying there,
talking about it, and I thought, "That's what I miss - and what they miss
too - playing." Because we hadn't actually played for anyone for a long time.
And being an actual good musician requires this contact with people all the
time. The human thing.
So I came into the idea of going to village halls which hold a couple
of hundred people. Have someone book the hall and put up posters saying,
maybe,"Ricky and Redstreaks Saturday Night." And we'd just turn up there
in a van and people would arrive and we'd be there. I thought that was great.
John said, "You're daft."
At the time John's thing was playing for 200,000 people because he'd
been at a big festival or something. So he wanted to do that. And I can see
now what he thought. I can see which way John sees progress. I see it sometimes
We were talking in the Apple offices. Ringo was there - he agreed - and
maybe George wasnt there. So then John says, "Anyway, I'm leaving the group."
He said, "I want a divorce." He literally said, "I want a divorce." And for
the first time ever, he meant it.
So that just hit everyone. All of us realized that this great thing that
we'd been part of was no longer to be. That was the chop. That hits anyone,
no matter what it is. It's like leaving school, and you love it, then it
hits like a chop. Our thing was the Beatles.
The Beatle way of life was like a young kid entering the big world, entering
it with friends and conquering it totally. And that was fantastic. An incredible
experience. So when that idea really came that we should break up, I don't
think any of us wanted to accept it. It was the end of a legend, even in
our own minds. Marilyn Monroe gets to believe eventually that she's Marilyn
Monroe. Now I fell that's how the Beatles got to be - I'm just speaking for
myself. You were very much a Beatle in your own eyes, and to an extent we
all still are.
Thinking back, I think it was great what John said. And he told us, "Look,
everything sort of comes together right." And now I agree. We'd just made
this album and it was to be called Get Back, and on the cover was a photograph
showing us in exactly the same position as the first album we'd made - the
whole lettering, and the backround was exactly reproduced. So John said,
"It's a perfect circle, you know."
I think what John did was tremendous from the point of view of "Okay,
so we are actually going to go our own ways." You can't just be as tied together
as we were for so long a period of time, unless you all live in the same
house. From then onward it was to be a question of living your own life,
which was the first real turn - on for me in a long time - and coincided
with my meeting Linda. So early in 1970 i phoned John and told him I was
leaving the Beatles too. He said, "Good! That makes two of us who have accepted
I do think if it were just up to the four of us, if it were totally
unencumbered, we would have had a dissolution - I hate these heavy terms
- the day after John said he was leaving. We would have picked up our bags
- these are my shoes, that's my ball, that's your ball - and gone. And I
still maintain that's the only way, to actually go and do that, no matter
what things are involved on a business level. But of course we aren't four
fellows. We are part of a big business machine. Even though the Beatles have
really stopped, the Beatle thing goes on - repackaging the albums, putting
tracks together in different forms, and the video coming in. So that's why
I've had to sue in the courts to dissolve the Beatles, to do it on a business
level what we should have done on a four-fellows level. I feel it just has
We used to get asked at press conferences, "What are you going to do when
the bubble burts?" When I talked to John just the other day, he said something
about, "Well, the bubble is going to burst." And I said, "It has to burst.
That's the point. That's why I've had to do this, which I had to apply in
court. You don't think I really enjoy doing that kind of stuff. I had to
do it because the bubble has burst - everywhere but on paper." That's the
only place we're tied now.
You see, there was a partnership contract put together years ago to hold
us together as a group for 10 years. Anything anybody wanted to do - put
out a record, anything - he had to get the others' permission. Because of
what we were then, none of us ever looked at it when we signed it. We signed
it in '67 and discovered it last year. We discovered this contract that bound
us for 10 years. So it's "Oh gosh. Oh golly. Oh heck," you know. "Now, boys,
can we tear it up, please?"
But the trouble is, the other three have been advised not to tear it up.
They've been advised that if they tear it up, there will be serious, bad
consequences for them. The point, though, to me was that it began to look
like a three-to-one vote, which is what in fact happened at a couple of business
meetings. It was three to one. That's how Allen Klein got to be the manager
of Apple, which i didn't want. But they didn't need my approval.
Listen, it's not the boys. It's not the other three. The four of us,
i think, still quite like each other. I don't think there is bad blood, not
from my side anyway. I spoke to the others quite recently and there didn't
sound like any from theirs. So it's a business thing. It's Allen Klein. Early
in '69 John took him on as business manager and wanted the rest of us to
do it too. That was just the irreconcilable difference between us.
Klein is incredible. He's New York. He'll say, "Waddaya want? I'll buy
it for you." I guess, there's a lot I really don't want to say about this,
but it will come out, because we had to sort of document the stuff for the
case. We had to go and fight - which I didn't want, really.
All summer long in Scotland I was fighting with myself as to whether i
should do anything like that. It was murderous. I had a knot in my stomach
all summer. I tried to think of a way to take Allen Klein to court, or take
a businessman to court. But the action had to be brought against the other
I first said no, we can't do that. We'll live with it. But all those little
things kept happening, such trivia compared to what has happened, but the
kind of things that... well, for example my record McCartney came out. Linda
and I did it totally - the record, the cover, the ads - everything presented
to the record company. Then there started to appear these little advertisements.
On the bottom was "On Apple Records," which was okay. But someone had also
come along and slapped on "An Abkco-managed company." Now that is Klein's
company and has nothing to do with my record. It's like Klein taking part
of the credit for my record.
Maybe that sounds petty, but I can go into other examples of this kind
of thing. The buildup is the thing: all these things continuously happening,
making me feel like I'm a junior with the record company, like Klein is the
boss and I'm nothing. well, I'm a senior. I figure my opinion is as good
as anyone's, especially when it's my thing. And it's emotional: you feel
like you don't have any freedom. I figured I'd have to stand up for myself
eventually or get pushed under.
The income from the McCartney album is still being held by Apple, and
Linda and I are the only ones on the record.
John has a new record out called Power to the People. There's a line in
it - sort of shouting to the government - "Give us what we own." And to me
Apple's the government thing. Give me what I own."
So then we began to talk again about the suit, over and over. I just
saw that I was not going to get out of it. From my last phone conversation
with John, I think he sees it like that. He said, "Well how do you get out?"
My lawyer, John Eastman, he's a nice guy and he saw the position we were
in, and he had sympathized. We'd have these meetings on top of hills in Scotland,
we'd go for long walks. I remember when we actually decided we had to go
and file suit. We were standing on this big hill which overlooked a loch
- it was quite a nice day, a bit chilly - and we'd been searching our souls.
Was there any other way? And we eventually said, "Oh, we've got to do it."
The only alternative was seven years with the partnership - going through
the same channels for seven years.
And I've changed. The funny thing about it is that I think a lot of my
change has been helped by john Lennon. I sort of picked up on his lead. John
had said, "Look, I don't want to be that anymore. I'm going to do this."
I liked the fact he'd done it, and so I'll do it with my thing. He's given
In England, if a partnership isn't rolling along and working - like a
marriage isn't working - then you have reasonable grounds to break it off.
It'd great! Good old british justice! But before I went into this, I had
to check out in my mind, is there such a thing as justice? Like I throw myself
into the courts, I could easily get caught - tell the story, put it all in
there, and then justice turns around and...I mean, these days, people don't
believe in justice. I really think the truth does win, but it's not a popular
thought. But then all my life I've been in love with goodies - as against
You can read the other boys' side to find out I'm the stinker. I think
I'm right. But don't we all! You couldn't believe it! It's a movie!
Because I've had to take this action against the others, it looks like
we can't stand each other. I can really only speak for myself, but I still
like the other three. And maybe it's deeper than "like." But at the moment,
I'm not stuck on them. I'm not pleased. We are not amused at the moment!
I am not loving them. But I know when it's over I will really like them.
People said, "It's a pity that such a nice thing had to come to such a
sticky end." I think that too. It is a pity. I like fairy tales. I'd love
to have the Beatles go up in a little cloud of smoke and the four of us just
find ourselves in magic robes, each holding an envelope with our stuff in
it. But you realize that you're in real life, and you don't split up a beautiful
thing with a beautiful thing.
I ignored John's interview in Rolling Stone. I looked at it and dug him
for saying what he thought. But to me, short of getting it off his chest,
I think he blows it with that kind of thing. I think it makes people wonder
why John needs to do that.
I did think there were an awful lot of inconsistencies, because on one
page you find John talking about how Dylan changed his name from Zimmerman
and how that's hypocritical. But John changed his name to John Ono Lennon.
And people looking at that just begin to think, "Come on, what is this?"
But the interview didn't bug me. It was so far out that I enjoyed it,
actually. I know there are elements of truth in what he said. And this open
hostility, that didn't hurt me, That's cool. That's John.
I can't describe what direction I'm going in musically, because it's
ever-changing - and that's what it's all about. I have my personal influences,
and they come from everywhere, from age nothing to today. Sounds I heard
on the radio. Sounds I heard my father play on the piano. Sounds I found
myself in rock and roll. Sounds that the group made. My music is all that
- very personal - especially now that it's one person putting it down instead
of four. I do what I feel. Make myself comfortable. It's a good job to have.
Linda and I have been writing songs together - and my publishers are suing
because they don't believe she wrote them with me. You know - suddenly she
marries him and suddenly she's writing songs. "Oh sure (wink,wink). Oh sure,
she's writing songs."
But actually one day I just said to her, "I'm going to teach you how
to write if I have to just strap you to the piano bench. I'm going to teach
you the way I write music" - because I never write music anyway. I just write
by ear. And I like to collaborate on songs. If I have to just go out in another
room and write - it is too much like work - like doing your homework. If
I can have Linda working with me, then it becomes like a game. It's fun.
So we wrote about 10 songs and then we discovered that it was becoming too
much like work. We were getting serious about writing. And I've never been
When we decided to do the new album, we wanted to make it fun - because
it isn't worth doing anything if you can't have fun doing it. The album will
be out early in May, and then I'm thinking about getting a band together
- another band - because I don't like to just sit around. I really like to
My musical direction - I'm trying for music that isn't too romantic, yet
contains a romantic thing. I personally don't like things to be too cute
- except babies. My music comes off best, i think, when there's hard and
The best things are often the free bits, and that gets very tricky. I
got into the studio and I know I'm going to ab-lib. If I announce I'm going
to ab-lib, I cant ab-lib because I'm no longer ab-libbing. So I've got to
just go out there and improvise, and someone's got to be in there in the
control room very cleverly thinking, "He's going to ab-lib now, I'd better
tape it." It's very hard because good things get missed. Last night I was
doing a real ab-lib and I was in a great mood and I was exploring what there
was to be done - and they missed it. The next time around, when they tried
the tape, I wasnt exploring any longer. I was trying to repeat last glories,
and that doesn't work.
But there were compensations. Sometimes you don't wantto share those
moments. Okay, the record-buying public didn't hear it, but you and I did.
That's beautiful. That's real. The moment was temporary like everything is.
Nothing in life really stays. And it's beautiful where they go. They have
to go in order for the next thing to come. You can almost add beauty to a
thing by accepting that it's temporary.
I suppose musically I'm competing with the other three, whether I like
it or not. It's only human to compete. But i think it's good for us. I think
George has shown recently that he was no dummy. I think we're really good,
each one of us, individually.
You know, there's like three periods in my life. There's the time when
I went to school and just after leaving it. That was when I used to read
a lot - Dylan Thomas, paperbacks, a lot of plays, Tennessee Williams, things
my literature master had turned me onto. I used to sit on the top level of
buses, reading and smoking a pipe. Then there was the whole sort of Beatle
thing. And just now again I feel I can do what I want. So it's like there
was me, then the Beatles phase, and now I'm me again.
It's rather serious - life. And you can't live as if you have nine lives.
I find myself doing that often. I think everybody does, saying in his mind,
"I'll get it tomorrow." But I can't do that anymore. Take One with the Beatles
should have been like I said, with a puff of smoke and magic robes and envelopes.
But we missed Take One, so now we do Take Two. And in the disappointment
of Take Two - I feel I can always find something good in the bad - the good
thing is that it really has made me come to terms more with my life. As a
married couple, Linda and I've really became closer because of all these
problems, all the decisions. It's been very real, what i've been through,
a breath of air, because of having been through very inhuman things.
The Beatle thing was fantastic. i loved every minute of it. It was beautiful.
But it was a very sheltered life. Why, somebody would even ring me up in
the morning and say, "You've got to be at Apple in an hour." It got very
nursemaidy. If you are a real human, you've got to wake yourself up. You've
got to take on these tedious little things because out of the tedium comes
the joy of life. I got fed up by Apple this year over Christmas trees. "Did
we want one, because the office was buying Christmas trees for everyone?"
I hated that. Actually we pinched one from a field in Scotland.
I love my life now because I'm doing much more ordinary things, and to
me that brings great joy. We're more ordinary than ordinary people sometimes.
In New York, we go to Harlem on the subway - a great evening at the Apollo.
We walk through Central Park after hours. You may find us murdered one day.
Last time we went, it was snowy, like moonlight in Vermont - just fantastic.
And i figure anyone who scares me, i scare him.
We try never to organize our lives very much. We do things on the spur
of the moment. We were in Scotland and we decided to take a trip to the Shetland
Islands. so we piled in the Landdover with the two kids, our English sheep
dog, Martha, and a whole pile of stuff in the back with Mary's potty on top.
On the second day we get up to a little port called Scrabaster at the top
of Scotland. When we tried to get on the big car ferry, we got in queue but
were too cars too late - missed it.
So, don't despair. Okay, make the best of it. We really didnt want to
go on that big liner, a mass-produced thing. So we thought, let'd beat the
liner. But we gave that up - it became a bit difficult with airplanes and
such. Let's try to get a ride in one of the little fishing boats, and how
much we should offer. So the romantic idea was that they'd rather have a
salmon or a bottle of Scotch than the 30 pounds.
I went to a bunch of boats, but there weren't going to the Orkney Islands.
So I went to this trapdoor sort of thing, and they were sleeping down below
- the smell of sleep is coming up through the door. At first the skipper
said no, and then I said there was 30 quid in it for him, and they said they'll
It was a fantastic little boat called the Enterprise and the captain named
George, he's wearing a beautiful Shetland sweater.We brought all our stuff
aboard, and it was low tide, so we had to lower Martha in a big fishing net,
and a little crowd gathers and wewave our farewells. As we steam out, the
skipper gives us some beer, and Linda, trying to be one of the boys, takes
a swig and passes it to me. Well you shouldn't drink before a rough crossing
tothe Orkneys. The little one, Mary, throws up all over the wife, as usual.
That was it. I was already feeling sick. I sort of gallantly walked to the
front of the boat, hanging onto the mast. The skipper comes up and we're
having light talk, light chit-chat. And I don't want it. So he gets the idea
and points to the fishing baskets and says, "Do it in there." So we were
all sick, but we ended up in the Orkney Islands, and we took a plane to Shetland.
It was great.
We do things like that - do it sort of eccentricordinary because we have
got the money to do it eccentric. I always wondered what happened to those
maharajahs who used to do things. But there never are really any of those
people. So we try and do a bit of it in our own lives.
People do recognize us sometimes, but they respect our privacy. It's a
beautiful thing. If you come on as a star, you get star treatment and all
the disadvantages. But often, when we dress in dungarees and sneakers - last
night we got turned out of two restaurants. The guy in the evening suit turns
us out. But I quite like it when they chuck us out.
I love to find that, even in this day of concrete, there are still alive
horses and places where grass grows in unlimited quantities and the sky has
got clean air to it. Scotland has that. It's just there without anyone touching
it. It just grows. I'm relieved to find that it isn't all pollution. It isn't
all the Hudson. It's not all the drug problem.
When we are in Scotland we plant stuff - vegetables - and we'll leave
them there, and of their own volition they will push up and grow into something,
but then they will be good to eat. To me that's an all-time thing. That's
fantastic. How clever! Just that things push their own way up and they feed
We don't eat meat because we've got lambs on the farm, and we just ate
a piece of lamb one day and suddenly realized we were eating a bit of one
of those things that was playing outside the window, gamboling peacefully.
But we're not strict. I don't want to put a big sign on me, "Thou Shalt Be
Vegetarian." I like to allow myself; I like to give myself a lucky break.
Give yourself a lucky break, son.
So I think you've got to live your own life. That sounds like one of those
statements, but it is, in fact, just very necessary to realize that. And
particularly necessary for me. Or else someone else is going to be living
your life for you.
But now I would like to stop talking and get up and get to work. I haven't
done any today, and it's beginning to frustrate me. I've got that album to
finish. We've got to get back to plant the seeds. Nature doesn't wait.